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	<title>Comments on: The Top Five Reasons Churches Don&#8217;t Grow</title>
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	<description>Things I Learn On the Way To …</description>
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		<title>By: Pastor Carlos Ortiz</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-268</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Carlos Ortiz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>6. Una casa Dividida no Prospera ( por Pastor C. Ortiz)
(Translation into English - Badly - below)

Aunque estoy de acuerdo con todos los otros puntos, quiero agregar uno mas
La desunión en cualquier organización hace que se infiltre el desanimo e influencias demonices como el celo, la envidia, el chisme, la ira, la raíz de amargura y la falta de perdón.
La biblia dice en Lucas 11:17 Mas él, conociendo los pensamientos de ellos, les dijo: Todo reino dividido contra sí mismo, es asolado; y una casa dividida contra sí misma, cae.
El espíritu de división en las iglesias entra por la falta de amor,  misericordia, benignidad, humildad, mansedumbre y paciencia entre los hermanos . Es necesario que nosotros como verdaderos cristianos nos mantengamos unidos en todo momento limando toda aspereza a fin de cumplir con la misión que Cristo nos otorgo. Debemos acostumbrarnos a hacer como escuchamos y predicamos, practicando el  amor, el perdón y compartiendo en humildad;  siempre llevando muy en alto nuestra visión y nunca perdiendo el rumbo de lo que nos une y esto es Cristo Jesús Fil 3:13.
Que fácil sería que toda el mundo fuera de nuestro agrado en el trabajo o en la iglesia?… pero la realidad es que siempre nos encontraremos con personas que no tenemos afinidad y similitud en lo natural. Mas si siempre tenemos presente la visión por la cual se trabaja y si Cristo es el centro de nuestra vida eso se convierte en nuestra identidad que nos hace semejantes y afines en lo espiritual y lo cual tendrá repercusión en los natural.
Los exhorto pues a que pongan estos 6 puntos en práctica para poder ver resultados positivos en nuestra iglesia y además los llamo a que tomen las medidas necesarias para hacer cambios en sus actitudes y mentes si es necesario, a fin de demostrar un verdadero carácter cristiano del cual Cristo se pueda sentir orgulloso.
Colosenses 3:12 – 17 
12.Vestíos, pues, como escogidos de Dios, santos y amados, de entrañable misericordia, de benignidad, de humildad, de mansedumbre, de   paciencia; 
    13 soportándoos unos a otros, y perdonándoos unos a otros  si alguno tuviere queja contra otro. De la manera que Cristo os perdonó, así también hacedlo vosotros.
    14 Y sobre todas estas cosas vestíos de amor, que es el vínculo perfecto. 
    15 Y la paz de Dios gobierne en vuestros corazones, a la que asimismo fuisteis llamados en un solo cuerpo; y sed agradecidos. 
    16 La palabra de Cristo more en abundancia en vosotros, enseñándoos y exhortándoos unos a otros en toda sabiduría, cantando con gracia en vuestros corazones al Señor con salmos e himnos y cánticos espirituales. 
    17 Y todo lo que hacéis, sea de palabra o de hecho, hacedlo todo en el nombre del Señor Jesús, dando gracias a Dios Padre por medio de él.(G)

&lt;strong&gt;ENGLISH&lt;/strong&gt;
6. A Divided house will not prosper (by Pastor C. Ortiz) Although I am in agreement with all the other points, I want to add one.

The lack of unity in any organization causes that it infiltrates demonic dejection and influences like the fervor, envy, @@@, the wrath, the root of bitterness, and the lack of pardon. The Bible says in Lucas 11:17 But he, knowing the thoughts them, said them: A kingdom divided against itself, is knocked down; and a house divided against itself, falls. The spirit of division in the churches enters by the lack of love, mercy, gentleness, humility, meekness and patience between the brothers. It is necessary that we as true Christians we stay united at any moment filing all harshness in order to fulfill the mission that Christ grants to us. We must be used to us doing as we listened and we preached, practicing the love, the pardon and sharing in humility; taking very in always high our vision and never losing the course than it unites to us and this is Christ Jesus Fil 3:13. That easy it would be that all the world outside our affability in the work or the church? … but the reality is that we will always be with people who we do not have affinity and similarity in the natural thing. But if always we remember the vision by which it works and if Christ is the center of our life that turns into our identity that does compatible resemblances to us and in the spiritual and which will have repercussion in the natural one. I exhort them then to that they put these 6 points in practice to be able to see positive results in our church and I call in addition them to that they take the measures necessary to make changes in its attitudes and minds if it is necessary, in order demonstrate a true Christian character of which Christ can be felt proud. Col 3:12 - 17 Therefore, as God&#039;s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>6. Una casa Dividida no Prospera ( por Pastor C. Ortiz)<br />
(Translation into English &#8211; Badly &#8211; below)</p>
<p>Aunque estoy de acuerdo con todos los otros puntos, quiero agregar uno mas<br />
La desunión en cualquier organización hace que se infiltre el desanimo e influencias demonices como el celo, la envidia, el chisme, la ira, la raíz de amargura y la falta de perdón.<br />
La biblia dice en Lucas 11:17 Mas él, conociendo los pensamientos de ellos, les dijo: Todo reino dividido contra sí mismo, es asolado; y una casa dividida contra sí misma, cae.<br />
El espíritu de división en las iglesias entra por la falta de amor,  misericordia, benignidad, humildad, mansedumbre y paciencia entre los hermanos . Es necesario que nosotros como verdaderos cristianos nos mantengamos unidos en todo momento limando toda aspereza a fin de cumplir con la misión que Cristo nos otorgo. Debemos acostumbrarnos a hacer como escuchamos y predicamos, practicando el  amor, el perdón y compartiendo en humildad;  siempre llevando muy en alto nuestra visión y nunca perdiendo el rumbo de lo que nos une y esto es Cristo Jesús Fil 3:13.<br />
Que fácil sería que toda el mundo fuera de nuestro agrado en el trabajo o en la iglesia?… pero la realidad es que siempre nos encontraremos con personas que no tenemos afinidad y similitud en lo natural. Mas si siempre tenemos presente la visión por la cual se trabaja y si Cristo es el centro de nuestra vida eso se convierte en nuestra identidad que nos hace semejantes y afines en lo espiritual y lo cual tendrá repercusión en los natural.<br />
Los exhorto pues a que pongan estos 6 puntos en práctica para poder ver resultados positivos en nuestra iglesia y además los llamo a que tomen las medidas necesarias para hacer cambios en sus actitudes y mentes si es necesario, a fin de demostrar un verdadero carácter cristiano del cual Cristo se pueda sentir orgulloso.<br />
Colosenses 3:12 – 17<br />
12.Vestíos, pues, como escogidos de Dios, santos y amados, de entrañable misericordia, de benignidad, de humildad, de mansedumbre, de   paciencia;<br />
    13 soportándoos unos a otros, y perdonándoos unos a otros  si alguno tuviere queja contra otro. De la manera que Cristo os perdonó, así también hacedlo vosotros.<br />
    14 Y sobre todas estas cosas vestíos de amor, que es el vínculo perfecto.<br />
    15 Y la paz de Dios gobierne en vuestros corazones, a la que asimismo fuisteis llamados en un solo cuerpo; y sed agradecidos.<br />
    16 La palabra de Cristo more en abundancia en vosotros, enseñándoos y exhortándoos unos a otros en toda sabiduría, cantando con gracia en vuestros corazones al Señor con salmos e himnos y cánticos espirituales.<br />
    17 Y todo lo que hacéis, sea de palabra o de hecho, hacedlo todo en el nombre del Señor Jesús, dando gracias a Dios Padre por medio de él.(G)</p>
<p><strong>ENGLISH</strong><br />
6. A Divided house will not prosper (by Pastor C. Ortiz) Although I am in agreement with all the other points, I want to add one.</p>
<p>The lack of unity in any organization causes that it infiltrates demonic dejection and influences like the fervor, envy, @@@, the wrath, the root of bitterness, and the lack of pardon. The Bible says in Lucas 11:17 But he, knowing the thoughts them, said them: A kingdom divided against itself, is knocked down; and a house divided against itself, falls. The spirit of division in the churches enters by the lack of love, mercy, gentleness, humility, meekness and patience between the brothers. It is necessary that we as true Christians we stay united at any moment filing all harshness in order to fulfill the mission that Christ grants to us. We must be used to us doing as we listened and we preached, practicing the love, the pardon and sharing in humility; taking very in always high our vision and never losing the course than it unites to us and this is Christ Jesus Fil 3:13. That easy it would be that all the world outside our affability in the work or the church? … but the reality is that we will always be with people who we do not have affinity and similarity in the natural thing. But if always we remember the vision by which it works and if Christ is the center of our life that turns into our identity that does compatible resemblances to us and in the spiritual and which will have repercussion in the natural one. I exhort them then to that they put these 6 points in practice to be able to see positive results in our church and I call in addition them to that they take the measures necessary to make changes in its attitudes and minds if it is necessary, in order demonstrate a true Christian character of which Christ can be felt proud. Col 3:12 &#8211; 17 Therefore, as God&#8217;s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill T-B</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-243</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill T-B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billtennybrittian.com/?p=288#comment-243</guid>
		<description>JoAnne,

That all depends on how you define church. It&#039;s not just about numbers, it&#039;s about faithfulness of life and ministry. By Jesus&#039; standards, church appears to be defined as wherever two or three are gathered together in his name. By that definition, they&#039;re a fine church. The purpose of the church, however, is to make disciples ... both more of them and more effective/faithful ones. This is truly the &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; way to effectively measure a church&#039;s faithfulness as the body of Christ. 

Of course, by that definition, most churches in North America are in pretty sorry shape, regardless of their size. There are 300+ member churches in the US that haven&#039;t done a baptism in years. There are thirty member churches that would rather nurture and tolerate ongoing conflict than confront non-Christian behavior (and provide a path to faithful discipleship). 

So, before we can really weigh in on a church with only three members, we&#039;ve got a lot of work to do with a slew of other churches. 

On the other hand, if the pastor is receiving a salary, something is VERY wrong with this picture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JoAnne,</p>
<p>That all depends on how you define church. It&#8217;s not just about numbers, it&#8217;s about faithfulness of life and ministry. By Jesus&#8217; standards, church appears to be defined as wherever two or three are gathered together in his name. By that definition, they&#8217;re a fine church. The purpose of the church, however, is to make disciples &#8230; both more of them and more effective/faithful ones. This is truly the <em>only</em> way to effectively measure a church&#8217;s faithfulness as the body of Christ. </p>
<p>Of course, by that definition, most churches in North America are in pretty sorry shape, regardless of their size. There are 300+ member churches in the US that haven&#8217;t done a baptism in years. There are thirty member churches that would rather nurture and tolerate ongoing conflict than confront non-Christian behavior (and provide a path to faithful discipleship). </p>
<p>So, before we can really weigh in on a church with only three members, we&#8217;ve got a lot of work to do with a slew of other churches. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if the pastor is receiving a salary, something is VERY wrong with this picture.</p>
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		<title>By: JoAnne</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-242</link>
		<dc:creator>JoAnne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 03:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billtennybrittian.com/?p=288#comment-242</guid>
		<description>I know someone who has started a church and it has been up and running for about 2 years now, but there are still only 3 members.  The Pastor, his wife and 1 member.  Is there something wrong with this picture?  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know someone who has started a church and it has been up and running for about 2 years now, but there are still only 3 members.  The Pastor, his wife and 1 member.  Is there something wrong with this picture?  Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill T-B</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-240</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill T-B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billtennybrittian.com/?p=288#comment-240</guid>
		<description>The rule of thumb is that unless you are experiencing extremely rapid growth, growth essentially stops at the 80 percent mark. This is true of seating capacity as well as parking capacity. At the 80 percent mark, a space &quot;looks&quot; full and guests and late comers alike. Even choirs that fill 80 percent of the choir loft will find it somewhat difficult to attract new vocalists.

The exception is in fast growing churches that blow past the 80 percent mark ... however, if the church leaders don&#039;t do something about breaking capacity, such as by adding an additional service, multi-site-ing, or remodeling, the growth will come to a screeching halt and the attendance will normalize back at the 80 percent of capacity in due course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rule of thumb is that unless you are experiencing extremely rapid growth, growth essentially stops at the 80 percent mark. This is true of seating capacity as well as parking capacity. At the 80 percent mark, a space &#8220;looks&#8221; full and guests and late comers alike. Even choirs that fill 80 percent of the choir loft will find it somewhat difficult to attract new vocalists.</p>
<p>The exception is in fast growing churches that blow past the 80 percent mark &#8230; however, if the church leaders don&#8217;t do something about breaking capacity, such as by adding an additional service, multi-site-ing, or remodeling, the growth will come to a screeching halt and the attendance will normalize back at the 80 percent of capacity in due course.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-239</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billtennybrittian.com/?p=288#comment-239</guid>
		<description>How much of an effect can attendance capacity effect growth? In other words if a church is 80% facility capacity will growth stall (70%, 90%??)  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much of an effect can attendance capacity effect growth? In other words if a church is 80% facility capacity will growth stall (70%, 90%??)  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ayo</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>Ayo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:41:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The problem with the management of people in the business world is the same in church.  The problem is more complex because church membership is voluntary, members contribute and expect spiritual benefit.s  I think what is the most important to pastors is to connect fully to God and play their role as the linking-pin between God and the congregation as appropriate.  Any attempt to do otherwise may not work.  Church is about the spiritual life of people.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with the management of people in the business world is the same in church.  The problem is more complex because church membership is voluntary, members contribute and expect spiritual benefit.s  I think what is the most important to pastors is to connect fully to God and play their role as the linking-pin between God and the congregation as appropriate.  Any attempt to do otherwise may not work.  Church is about the spiritual life of people.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Huffman</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Huffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billtennybrittian.com/?p=288#comment-160</guid>
		<description>Bill,

Good thoughts..In our church we are in the process of deciding whether or not to &quot;track every individual&quot;. You say yes, some say no. Do you have some thoughts on how to do that..

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,</p>
<p>Good thoughts..In our church we are in the process of deciding whether or not to &#8220;track every individual&#8221;. You say yes, some say no. Do you have some thoughts on how to do that..</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Teresa</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Teresa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billtennybrittian.com/?p=288#comment-155</guid>
		<description>UNITY.........our church is committed to teaching conflict resolution.  Check out the book &quot;Peace Maker&quot; by  Ken Sande (A Biblical Guide to Resolving Personal Conflict)    We are encouraging all in leadership positions in the church to take a day retreat teaching the concepts in this teaching. (Being taught by a member of our congregation &amp; leader)   We are a new church of 5+yrs and are in the beginnings of building our church building.  It is clear from all the comings and goings of people that God is sifting us.   We so believe He is growing a church of believers who are committed to unity in Him and to serving as Christ served......one another,  the community, the lost,  and making disciples.  We are no social club, but a living, breathing body that is committed to changing lives.  Our motto:  &quot;Changing lives through the unchanging Word of God&quot;.  It&#039;s a great family to belong to!   Read Ephesians 4.  God Bless You.  Ps We have awesome, vibrant - mostly contemporary - worship services - with music as the powerful vehicle that it is for leading people to experience  the wonderful presence of our Papa God, Brother Jesus, and the awesome Holy Spirit of the Risen Lord.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UNITY&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;our church is committed to teaching conflict resolution.  Check out the book &#8220;Peace Maker&#8221; by  Ken Sande (A Biblical Guide to Resolving Personal Conflict)    We are encouraging all in leadership positions in the church to take a day retreat teaching the concepts in this teaching. (Being taught by a member of our congregation &amp; leader)   We are a new church of 5+yrs and are in the beginnings of building our church building.  It is clear from all the comings and goings of people that God is sifting us.   We so believe He is growing a church of believers who are committed to unity in Him and to serving as Christ served&#8230;&#8230;one another,  the community, the lost,  and making disciples.  We are no social club, but a living, breathing body that is committed to changing lives.  Our motto:  &#8220;Changing lives through the unchanging Word of God&#8221;.  It&#8217;s a great family to belong to!   Read Ephesians 4.  God Bless You.  Ps We have awesome, vibrant &#8211; mostly contemporary &#8211; worship services &#8211; with music as the powerful vehicle that it is for leading people to experience  the wonderful presence of our Papa God, Brother Jesus, and the awesome Holy Spirit of the Risen Lord.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Stryd</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Stryd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 21:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billtennybrittian.com/?p=288#comment-154</guid>
		<description>Bill,

Thanks for the article. We are working at several of these. You mention the complete worship audit, but I do not see it available in the store. Is it not out yet? Thanks for any help.

Bruce</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,</p>
<p>Thanks for the article. We are working at several of these. You mention the complete worship audit, but I do not see it available in the store. Is it not out yet? Thanks for any help.</p>
<p>Bruce</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Dabbs</title>
		<link>http://www.billtennybrittian.com/archives/288/comment-page-1#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Dabbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 19:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billtennybrittian.com/?p=288#comment-153</guid>
		<description>I would have to include lack of God-focus. We can come and contemplate our navels or sing songs and say prayers as if they don&#039;t make it past the ceiling. But when God is clearly the focus and we make no bones about that, people will get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have to include lack of God-focus. We can come and contemplate our navels or sing songs and say prayers as if they don&#8217;t make it past the ceiling. But when God is clearly the focus and we make no bones about that, people will get it.</p>
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